1 00:00:18,230 --> 00:00:15,829 among the many uh statements or 2 00:00:20,710 --> 00:00:18,240 endorsements of thermodynamics there are 3 00:00:22,870 --> 00:00:20,720 the top two or three one of them is by 4 00:00:25,750 --> 00:00:22,880 albert einstein and 5 00:00:27,349 --> 00:00:25,760 it reads classical thermodynamics is the 6 00:00:29,589 --> 00:00:27,359 only physical theory of universal 7 00:00:31,269 --> 00:00:29,599 content concerning which i am convinced 8 00:00:33,670 --> 00:00:31,279 that within the framework of 9 00:00:36,310 --> 00:00:33,680 applicability of its basic concepts 10 00:00:38,869 --> 00:00:36,320 it will never be overthrown 11 00:00:43,030 --> 00:00:38,879 now considering in particular the the 12 00:00:48,310 --> 00:00:46,069 what this says in other words is that 13 00:00:49,830 --> 00:00:48,320 thermodynamics is correct 14 00:00:51,110 --> 00:00:49,840 when it's correct 15 00:00:53,910 --> 00:00:51,120 and it isn't 16 00:00:58,869 --> 00:00:56,229 so this begs the question are there 17 00:01:01,590 --> 00:00:58,879 circumstances under which thermodynamics 18 00:01:03,750 --> 00:01:01,600 is not correct or not complete 19 00:01:05,350 --> 00:01:03,760 so with this in mind i'd like to 20 00:01:07,429 --> 00:01:05,360 introduce this talk 21 00:01:10,310 --> 00:01:07,439 beyond the thermodynamic limit a 22 00:01:12,950 --> 00:01:10,320 template for second law exceptions 23 00:01:15,590 --> 00:01:12,960 and i'm at the university of san diego 24 00:01:17,190 --> 00:01:15,600 not ucsd 25 00:01:18,550 --> 00:01:17,200 before we get started i'd like to 26 00:01:20,789 --> 00:01:18,560 acknowledge a number of people who made 27 00:01:22,950 --> 00:01:20,799 this possible charles chase of course 28 00:01:24,630 --> 00:01:22,960 and garrett medell and i'd also like to 29 00:01:26,230 --> 00:01:24,640 thank very much david miller my 30 00:01:28,149 --> 00:01:26,240 colleague here at the university who's 31 00:01:30,310 --> 00:01:28,159 been doing some wonderful experiments 32 00:01:31,510 --> 00:01:30,320 that some of which will be alluded to 33 00:01:33,670 --> 00:01:31,520 today 34 00:01:35,270 --> 00:01:33,680 i'd also like to thank fellaini and 35 00:01:38,630 --> 00:01:35,280 pasha thornton foundation for their 36 00:01:40,390 --> 00:01:38,640 generous support of this research 37 00:01:41,749 --> 00:01:40,400 the outline of this talk is 38 00:01:44,230 --> 00:01:41,759 fairly straightforward it you can 39 00:01:45,670 --> 00:01:44,240 consider it in a way a primer for the 40 00:01:47,830 --> 00:01:45,680 rest of the talks 41 00:01:49,190 --> 00:01:47,840 today concerning the second law 42 00:01:51,990 --> 00:01:49,200 the first thing i'd like to do is talk 43 00:01:54,389 --> 00:01:52,000 about the thermodynamic limit which is a 44 00:01:56,789 --> 00:01:54,399 technical term for an approximation 45 00:01:58,630 --> 00:01:56,799 that's often used in thermodynamics in 46 00:02:00,950 --> 00:01:58,640 order to get to results and then talk 47 00:02:03,030 --> 00:02:00,960 about how important boundaries are to 48 00:02:04,630 --> 00:02:03,040 real systems 49 00:02:05,990 --> 00:02:04,640 next i'd like to talk about the second 50 00:02:08,550 --> 00:02:06,000 law of renaissance that's occurred over 51 00:02:11,510 --> 00:02:08,560 the last 25 to 30 years which might also 52 00:02:13,190 --> 00:02:11,520 be called a second law revolution 53 00:02:14,949 --> 00:02:13,200 uh next i'd like to talk about one 54 00:02:17,190 --> 00:02:14,959 particular 55 00:02:19,030 --> 00:02:17,200 exception that's been found called 56 00:02:21,350 --> 00:02:19,040 epicatalysis which has been studied in 57 00:02:22,869 --> 00:02:21,360 laboratories here at the university here 58 00:02:24,869 --> 00:02:22,879 at the university of san diego for the 59 00:02:27,670 --> 00:02:24,879 last 25 years or so 60 00:02:29,270 --> 00:02:27,680 and finally from it infer a template for 61 00:02:30,229 --> 00:02:29,280 second law exceptions which appear to 62 00:02:31,990 --> 00:02:30,239 apply 63 00:02:33,430 --> 00:02:32,000 to all of them that are being discussed 64 00:02:35,509 --> 00:02:33,440 today and most 65 00:02:37,190 --> 00:02:35,519 in the literature 66 00:02:38,949 --> 00:02:37,200 finally i'd like to discuss 67 00:02:43,509 --> 00:02:38,959 ramifications and future future 68 00:02:47,830 --> 00:02:45,270 now to begin let's just kind of give a 69 00:02:50,470 --> 00:02:47,840 general definition of thermodynamics 70 00:02:52,710 --> 00:02:50,480 thermodynamics you can see has two words 71 00:02:55,110 --> 00:02:52,720 in it thermo and dynamic and that 72 00:02:58,229 --> 00:02:55,120 basically explains it it's the science 73 00:02:59,030 --> 00:02:58,239 of the interplay between heat and work 74 00:03:02,149 --> 00:02:59,040 and 75 00:03:05,270 --> 00:03:02,159 heat is microscopic motion so to speak 76 00:03:06,149 --> 00:03:05,280 and work is macroscopic motion 77 00:03:08,710 --> 00:03:06,159 so 78 00:03:09,509 --> 00:03:08,720 the thermodynamic limit however is 79 00:03:11,430 --> 00:03:09,519 um 80 00:03:13,750 --> 00:03:11,440 something more particular and this is an 81 00:03:16,149 --> 00:03:13,760 approximation that's used uh throughout 82 00:03:19,589 --> 00:03:16,159 the literature and it's basically this 83 00:03:21,030 --> 00:03:19,599 uh consider a box with n particles this 84 00:03:22,630 --> 00:03:21,040 can be arbitrary it's usually a very 85 00:03:25,830 --> 00:03:22,640 very large number 86 00:03:26,710 --> 00:03:25,840 and a volume v given by this constant 87 00:03:29,270 --> 00:03:26,720 here 88 00:03:31,270 --> 00:03:29,280 and let the number of particles go to 89 00:03:33,270 --> 00:03:31,280 infinity and let the volume of the 90 00:03:35,830 --> 00:03:33,280 container go to infinity so both 91 00:03:38,229 --> 00:03:35,840 quantities n and v go to infinity but 92 00:03:40,789 --> 00:03:38,239 their ratio doesn't the ratio remains 93 00:03:42,710 --> 00:03:40,799 finite this is the number density 94 00:03:47,110 --> 00:03:42,720 and 95 00:03:48,550 --> 00:03:47,120 assumption because what it allows you to 96 00:03:50,710 --> 00:03:48,560 do is 97 00:03:52,949 --> 00:03:50,720 make more easily calculations of things 98 00:03:55,030 --> 00:03:52,959 like specific heats and transport 99 00:03:57,190 --> 00:03:55,040 coefficients like diffusion 100 00:03:59,589 --> 00:03:57,200 latent heats 101 00:04:01,509 --> 00:03:59,599 all sorts of nice things so it's a 102 00:04:04,710 --> 00:04:01,519 standard approximation 103 00:04:07,350 --> 00:04:04,720 but it also brings in a kind of mindset 104 00:04:09,750 --> 00:04:07,360 into thermodynamics which is that 105 00:04:11,750 --> 00:04:09,760 boundaries are ignorable you can let the 106 00:04:13,190 --> 00:04:11,760 system just become infinite in size and 107 00:04:16,469 --> 00:04:13,200 forget about what the boundaries are 108 00:04:18,629 --> 00:04:16,479 doing and this is a dangerous assumption 109 00:04:19,830 --> 00:04:18,639 for as mark twain said what gets you 110 00:04:21,990 --> 00:04:19,840 into trouble 111 00:04:23,909 --> 00:04:22,000 is not what we don't know 112 00:04:26,310 --> 00:04:23,919 it's what we know for sure 113 00:04:27,670 --> 00:04:26,320 that just ain't so 114 00:04:30,550 --> 00:04:27,680 and it turns out 115 00:04:35,350 --> 00:04:30,560 that boundaries are not ignorable when 116 00:04:38,950 --> 00:04:37,270 so boundaries are what we interact with 117 00:04:40,870 --> 00:04:38,960 on an everyday basis when we touch 118 00:04:43,990 --> 00:04:40,880 things we're talking about boundaries 119 00:04:46,870 --> 00:04:44,000 when when water falls over a waterfall 120 00:04:48,790 --> 00:04:46,880 it it touches the rocks surfaces not the 121 00:04:51,110 --> 00:04:48,800 inside of the rocks 122 00:04:53,110 --> 00:04:51,120 boundaries are where the action really 123 00:04:54,710 --> 00:04:53,120 is in most of life 124 00:04:56,790 --> 00:04:54,720 and in fact 125 00:04:58,629 --> 00:04:56,800 many if not most of all the fields of 126 00:05:00,629 --> 00:04:58,639 physics are largely defined by their 127 00:05:03,830 --> 00:05:00,639 boundaries so for instance if you 128 00:05:08,629 --> 00:05:06,310 plasma has a sheath at the at its edge 129 00:05:09,590 --> 00:05:08,639 called the dubai sheath and in that 130 00:05:12,629 --> 00:05:09,600 sheath 131 00:05:14,950 --> 00:05:12,639 the plasma has very non-equilibrium 132 00:05:17,110 --> 00:05:14,960 characteristics to it it has a potential 133 00:05:19,029 --> 00:05:17,120 drop across it it has 134 00:05:20,790 --> 00:05:19,039 distribution functions 135 00:05:24,390 --> 00:05:20,800 for velocity which are 136 00:05:25,909 --> 00:05:24,400 non-linear non-maxwellian and these very 137 00:05:27,430 --> 00:05:25,919 strongly affect 138 00:05:28,870 --> 00:05:27,440 how the plasma interacts with the 139 00:05:30,870 --> 00:05:28,880 outside world 140 00:05:33,590 --> 00:05:30,880 if we look at semiconductors 141 00:05:36,150 --> 00:05:33,600 semiconductor devices like the pn diode 142 00:05:39,029 --> 00:05:36,160 which is kind of the starting point for 143 00:05:41,670 --> 00:05:39,039 our modern technology in electronics it 144 00:05:44,150 --> 00:05:41,680 consists of p-type and n-type silicon 145 00:05:45,670 --> 00:05:44,160 for instance which are differentially 146 00:05:47,670 --> 00:05:45,680 doped um 147 00:05:49,749 --> 00:05:47,680 silicon and they come together at a 148 00:05:52,390 --> 00:05:49,759 junction and that junction really 149 00:05:54,950 --> 00:05:52,400 matters for for making diodes and 150 00:05:57,510 --> 00:05:54,960 transistors and in this region called 151 00:06:00,469 --> 00:05:57,520 the depletion region where the p and n 152 00:06:05,510 --> 00:06:00,479 meet where the boundary of them is 153 00:06:09,990 --> 00:06:07,670 drop-offs and density you have strong 154 00:06:11,350 --> 00:06:10,000 electric fields lots and lots is 155 00:06:13,350 --> 00:06:11,360 happening here 156 00:06:15,430 --> 00:06:13,360 in chemistry almost everything in the 157 00:06:17,670 --> 00:06:15,440 room that you touched today will have 158 00:06:20,150 --> 00:06:17,680 been taught will have been touched by 159 00:06:21,749 --> 00:06:20,160 heterogeneous catalysis somewhere along 160 00:06:22,790 --> 00:06:21,759 its path in the production of the 161 00:06:23,510 --> 00:06:22,800 chemicals 162 00:06:26,790 --> 00:06:23,520 and 163 00:06:28,950 --> 00:06:26,800 a catalyst can is is a surface which 164 00:06:30,230 --> 00:06:28,960 interacts with molecules to create new 165 00:06:32,309 --> 00:06:30,240 products 166 00:06:34,230 --> 00:06:32,319 again it's the boundaries 167 00:06:36,070 --> 00:06:34,240 in biology which will be discussed later 168 00:06:36,870 --> 00:06:36,080 today by james lee 169 00:06:38,790 --> 00:06:36,880 um 170 00:06:41,189 --> 00:06:38,800 every every cell and many of its 171 00:06:43,350 --> 00:06:41,199 organelles have boundaries to them the 172 00:06:44,469 --> 00:06:43,360 membranes and these are very complex 173 00:06:48,150 --> 00:06:44,479 devices 174 00:06:50,309 --> 00:06:48,160 that uh assure that make possible life 175 00:06:53,029 --> 00:06:50,319 each one of these in fact each one of 176 00:06:55,189 --> 00:06:53,039 these four has been invoked in research 177 00:06:58,070 --> 00:06:55,199 at the university of san diego 178 00:06:59,749 --> 00:06:58,080 and among the roughly one dozen or so 179 00:07:04,710 --> 00:06:59,759 second law challenges that we've put 180 00:07:08,629 --> 00:07:06,790 as has been said 181 00:07:10,550 --> 00:07:08,639 god made the bulk 182 00:07:13,749 --> 00:07:10,560 the devil made the surface and the 183 00:07:18,469 --> 00:07:16,309 boundaries well just by their mere 184 00:07:20,950 --> 00:07:18,479 existence they indicate some sort of 185 00:07:22,390 --> 00:07:20,960 broken physical or chemical symmetry in 186 00:07:24,870 --> 00:07:22,400 the system 187 00:07:27,909 --> 00:07:24,880 they are discontinuities in chemical 188 00:07:30,070 --> 00:07:27,919 potential pressure or temperature 189 00:07:31,670 --> 00:07:30,080 and because are discontinuities and 190 00:07:33,270 --> 00:07:31,680 things like chemical potentials they're 191 00:07:35,510 --> 00:07:33,280 automatically 192 00:07:36,790 --> 00:07:35,520 reservoirs of free energy 193 00:07:39,270 --> 00:07:36,800 and they also 194 00:07:41,350 --> 00:07:39,280 in effect represent a metastable state 195 00:07:42,950 --> 00:07:41,360 because true equilibrium would be a 196 00:07:45,270 --> 00:07:42,960 complete smearing out of all particles 197 00:07:46,950 --> 00:07:45,280 to uniform density and temperature 198 00:07:48,950 --> 00:07:46,960 and whenever you have a boundary that 199 00:07:51,510 --> 00:07:48,960 simply is not the case so if you wait 200 00:07:53,510 --> 00:07:51,520 long enough any boundary will erase and 201 00:07:55,670 --> 00:07:53,520 disappear so it never really was an 202 00:08:00,070 --> 00:07:55,680 equilibrium state they're metastable 203 00:08:03,749 --> 00:08:01,990 now if you have 204 00:08:05,110 --> 00:08:03,759 thermodynamic properties 205 00:08:06,869 --> 00:08:05,120 on a boundary they're usually more 206 00:08:08,950 --> 00:08:06,879 complex than the bulk 207 00:08:10,550 --> 00:08:08,960 and they also present opportunities for 208 00:08:12,390 --> 00:08:10,560 work extraction 209 00:08:14,629 --> 00:08:12,400 and some of these surfaces some of these 210 00:08:17,029 --> 00:08:14,639 boundaries actually 211 00:08:19,589 --> 00:08:17,039 some allow for cyclic work extraction 212 00:08:21,749 --> 00:08:19,599 derived from ambient single temperature 213 00:08:24,150 --> 00:08:21,759 thermal energy and that mouthful 214 00:08:28,390 --> 00:08:24,160 basically means you can challenge or 215 00:08:31,189 --> 00:08:29,189 now 216 00:08:33,269 --> 00:08:31,199 to put this into perspective 217 00:08:36,149 --> 00:08:33,279 the second law has been 218 00:08:38,949 --> 00:08:36,159 undergoing really unprecedented scrutiny 219 00:08:40,630 --> 00:08:38,959 over the last 25 to 30 years 220 00:08:43,029 --> 00:08:40,640 roughly three to four dozen closer to 221 00:08:44,630 --> 00:08:43,039 four dozen second law challenges have 222 00:08:47,590 --> 00:08:44,640 have reached into the scientific 223 00:08:49,670 --> 00:08:47,600 literature since the 1990s 224 00:08:51,670 --> 00:08:49,680 60 to 80 articles are in the refereed 225 00:08:54,389 --> 00:08:51,680 scientific literature and there are more 226 00:08:56,710 --> 00:08:54,399 of these in the last 25 years 227 00:08:59,269 --> 00:08:56,720 than there have been in the last 170 228 00:09:01,110 --> 00:08:59,279 years of the history of the second law 229 00:09:02,710 --> 00:09:01,120 it's been a revolution it's a 230 00:09:04,630 --> 00:09:02,720 renaissance there's been a technical 231 00:09:06,949 --> 00:09:04,640 monograph published by springer on the 232 00:09:09,269 --> 00:09:06,959 subject and international conferences 233 00:09:11,990 --> 00:09:09,279 held for the first time 234 00:09:13,670 --> 00:09:12,000 and so things are changing not maybe 235 00:09:16,389 --> 00:09:13,680 quickly enough for those of us in the 236 00:09:18,389 --> 00:09:16,399 field but nonetheless they're changing 237 00:09:19,590 --> 00:09:18,399 and you can see it in the progression of 238 00:09:22,470 --> 00:09:19,600 the second law of challenges that have 239 00:09:24,230 --> 00:09:22,480 arisen over the last 25 years or so what 240 00:09:26,310 --> 00:09:24,240 i would call generation one would be the 241 00:09:28,070 --> 00:09:26,320 first 15 years or so and most of the 242 00:09:30,470 --> 00:09:28,080 challenges at that point were 243 00:09:31,990 --> 00:09:30,480 theoretical in nature they were 244 00:09:34,630 --> 00:09:32,000 thought experiments 245 00:09:36,550 --> 00:09:34,640 mostly they were in extreme uh physical 246 00:09:38,550 --> 00:09:36,560 regimes like very high temperatures or 247 00:09:41,350 --> 00:09:38,560 very low temperatures purely quantum 248 00:09:42,470 --> 00:09:41,360 systems large gravitating objects things 249 00:09:44,790 --> 00:09:42,480 like that 250 00:09:46,630 --> 00:09:44,800 and there were only a handful a few 251 00:09:47,509 --> 00:09:46,640 corroborating experiments of the basic 252 00:09:53,990 --> 00:09:47,519 process 253 00:09:56,310 --> 00:09:54,000 generation 2 from 2005 2015 there was 254 00:09:58,470 --> 00:09:56,320 more theory but stronger experimental 255 00:10:00,470 --> 00:09:58,480 support stronger corroboratory evidence 256 00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:00,480 that something might be amiss 257 00:10:04,550 --> 00:10:02,880 and even a few patterns 258 00:10:06,310 --> 00:10:04,560 generation three which is what we're in 259 00:10:09,110 --> 00:10:06,320 right now and which will be discussed 260 00:10:11,030 --> 00:10:09,120 more fully during uh during today 261 00:10:13,269 --> 00:10:11,040 has more diversity 262 00:10:15,509 --> 00:10:13,279 more room temperature and pressure more 263 00:10:16,829 --> 00:10:15,519 uh everyday accessible types of second 264 00:10:20,470 --> 00:10:16,839 law challenges 265 00:10:23,190 --> 00:10:20,480 and many i shouldn't say many several 266 00:10:24,470 --> 00:10:23,200 confirmation experiments 267 00:10:26,710 --> 00:10:24,480 what i'm looking forward to is 268 00:10:28,470 --> 00:10:26,720 generation four which would be the 269 00:10:30,870 --> 00:10:28,480 second law of challenges or second law 270 00:10:33,030 --> 00:10:30,880 devices which are commercialized and 271 00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:33,040 this may be perhaps in the next several 272 00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:39,269 so when it comes to generation three 273 00:10:42,389 --> 00:10:40,320 these are 274 00:10:44,829 --> 00:10:42,399 experiments or ideas that in principle 275 00:10:48,069 --> 00:10:44,839 or have been experimentally 276 00:10:49,910 --> 00:10:48,079 tested um later today paul thibodeau 277 00:10:52,949 --> 00:10:49,920 will be talking about his graphene 278 00:10:55,269 --> 00:10:52,959 trampoline and um extractions of of 279 00:10:57,670 --> 00:10:55,279 current from that thermionic emitters 280 00:10:58,470 --> 00:10:57,680 from germano de bruyne uh brahmo 281 00:11:01,030 --> 00:10:58,480 um 282 00:11:02,949 --> 00:11:01,040 some similar work of this in plasma 283 00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:02,959 systems was done at the university here 284 00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:04,880 back in the 1990s 285 00:11:10,550 --> 00:11:07,920 uh cell membranes by james lee 286 00:11:11,750 --> 00:11:10,560 the casmir cavity hot electron system by 287 00:11:14,069 --> 00:11:11,760 garrett 288 00:11:16,069 --> 00:11:14,079 this one is it's not confirmed that it's 289 00:11:19,430 --> 00:11:16,079 a second law device uh some of us think 290 00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:19,440 so garrett is uh is weighing um multiple 291 00:11:24,310 --> 00:11:22,000 possibilities very open-mindedly 292 00:11:25,829 --> 00:11:24,320 and um at the university here we've 293 00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:25,839 looked at roughly a dozen over the last 294 00:11:30,150 --> 00:11:28,640 25 years and falling into multiple 295 00:11:32,310 --> 00:11:30,160 categories 296 00:11:34,069 --> 00:11:32,320 listed here we'll be taking a look at 297 00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:34,079 the last one which is probably the most 298 00:11:43,509 --> 00:11:41,110 so let's talk a little bit about the 299 00:11:45,430 --> 00:11:43,519 second law um 300 00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:45,440 we understand the second law it's really 301 00:11:49,430 --> 00:11:47,680 a kind of an intuitive 302 00:11:51,269 --> 00:11:49,440 in an intuitive way we feel it in our 303 00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:51,279 bones we field in almost everything we 304 00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:53,040 do the second law has been called the 305 00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:54,880 supreme law of nature 306 00:11:59,110 --> 00:11:56,800 by arthur eddington 307 00:12:00,949 --> 00:11:59,120 90 years ago because it applies to 308 00:12:02,069 --> 00:12:00,959 almost everything 309 00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:02,079 and we 310 00:12:06,949 --> 00:12:04,880 see it in the fact that cars need gas 311 00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:06,959 houses need heating and cooling 312 00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:09,200 appliances need electricity industry 313 00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:11,360 needs power we need food and we have to 314 00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:14,240 constantly resupply things everything 315 00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:16,320 needs an energy supply because otherwise 316 00:12:21,430 --> 00:12:18,160 it simply runs down 317 00:12:23,430 --> 00:12:21,440 and this has become is because work gets 318 00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:23,440 transformed into heat 319 00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:26,800 things get messier 320 00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:29,120 at the microscopic level you can see 321 00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:31,680 this as the transition of order into 322 00:12:35,829 --> 00:12:33,120 disorder 323 00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:35,839 organized energy which you'd call work 324 00:12:39,829 --> 00:12:38,160 is in the form of electrical 325 00:12:42,230 --> 00:12:39,839 power coming out of the wall kinetic 326 00:12:45,110 --> 00:12:42,240 energy of things like cars gravitational 327 00:12:47,110 --> 00:12:45,120 potential energy of water in a in a dam 328 00:12:49,590 --> 00:12:47,120 chemical energy which keeps us alive and 329 00:12:52,710 --> 00:12:49,600 runs our cars nuclear energy and all 330 00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:52,720 this organized energy gets ultimately or 331 00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:55,519 largely transformed into 332 00:13:01,590 --> 00:12:58,320 disorganized energy thermal energy heat 333 00:13:03,910 --> 00:13:01,600 microscopic motion from the second law 334 00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:03,920 you can see this as a transition from 335 00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:07,279 low entropy to high entropy states 336 00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:09,760 from high quality energy degraded into 337 00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:11,680 low quality energy 338 00:13:14,870 --> 00:13:13,760 and this occurs and the second law can 339 00:13:17,190 --> 00:13:14,880 be seen 340 00:13:19,509 --> 00:13:17,200 from the smallest processes in nature at 341 00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:19,519 nuclear levels all the way up to the 342 00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:21,920 ultimate fate of the cosmos so indeed 343 00:13:27,190 --> 00:13:25,440 it's a wide-ranging law 344 00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:27,200 now the second law itself does not have 345 00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:29,120 a single statement there are lots of 346 00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:31,200 different forms of it in the book that 347 00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:34,800 vladi kept and i wrote back in 2005 we 348 00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:36,720 accumulated 21 different versions of the 349 00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:39,440 second law we found in the literature 350 00:13:42,629 --> 00:13:41,040 and among them the 351 00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:42,639 probably the most prominent are are 352 00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:44,320 these 353 00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:46,000 the first the kelvin ponch form of the 354 00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:48,480 second law heat cannot be transformed 355 00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:50,320 solely into work in a thermodynamic 356 00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:52,560 cycle that means that you can't 357 00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:54,720 reorganize the disorder 358 00:13:58,150 --> 00:13:56,240 at the microscopic level into 359 00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:58,160 macroscopic order again without paying 360 00:14:00,629 --> 00:13:59,839 price 361 00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:00,639 and 362 00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:04,959 goes back to the age of the steam engine 363 00:14:09,189 --> 00:14:07,600 1850. 364 00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:09,199 the one by max planck is probably the 365 00:14:13,590 --> 00:14:11,760 second most famous entropy or disorder 366 00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:13,600 never decreases for any spontaneous 367 00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:15,519 natural process 368 00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:17,440 and then the clausius form which also 369 00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:19,440 goes back 150 years 370 00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:21,199 heat goes from hot to cold not vice 371 00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:23,279 versa and this is what you see hot 372 00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:25,360 objects cool down 373 00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:28,800 cold objects don't spontaneously heat up 374 00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:30,800 perpetual motion machines are impossible 375 00:14:35,030 --> 00:14:32,240 there are no perfect heat engines 376 00:14:38,069 --> 00:14:35,040 refrigerators or anything else 377 00:14:38,949 --> 00:14:38,079 all natural processes are irreversible 378 00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:38,959 and 379 00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:40,880 these statements can be you know 380 00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:43,120 summarized in some informal ones like 381 00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:44,560 murphy's law 382 00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:46,800 um if anything can go wrong it will and 383 00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:49,440 its corollaries things like situations 384 00:14:53,189 --> 00:14:51,600 tend to progress from bad to worse 385 00:14:55,269 --> 00:14:53,199 the only way to deal with a can of worms 386 00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:55,279 is to find a bigger can 387 00:14:58,629 --> 00:14:56,880 and then there's the existential form of 388 00:15:00,310 --> 00:14:58,639 the second law 389 00:15:02,710 --> 00:15:00,320 we're all going to die 390 00:15:04,069 --> 00:15:02,720 and this is largely mediated by the 391 00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:04,079 second law 392 00:15:08,949 --> 00:15:06,160 on the other hand the fact that time 393 00:15:10,629 --> 00:15:08,959 goes forward the fact that things happen 394 00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:10,639 is due to the second law the 395 00:15:15,910 --> 00:15:12,720 irreversibility of the universe gives us 396 00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:15,920 its charm and gives life its taste so 397 00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:17,600 although it'll kill us in the end the 398 00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:20,320 second law is really the means by which 399 00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:22,320 time goes forward and things happen so 400 00:15:31,430 --> 00:15:28,310 but what is the nature of physical law i 401 00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:31,440 think people have a can often have a mis 402 00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:33,360 misunderstanding of what of what 403 00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:35,279 physical laws are 404 00:15:39,350 --> 00:15:37,279 many scientists actually believe the 405 00:15:40,790 --> 00:15:39,360 second law can be proven 406 00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:40,800 and that's not true 407 00:15:45,670 --> 00:15:42,639 from a purely epistemological point of 408 00:15:47,670 --> 00:15:45,680 view you can't prove a physical law 409 00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:47,680 it's an axiom 410 00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:49,199 of science 411 00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:52,160 and axioms by their very nature cannot 412 00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:53,519 be proved 413 00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:56,079 if you could prove the second law 414 00:16:00,069 --> 00:15:58,320 for more fundamental ideas those would 415 00:16:01,670 --> 00:16:00,079 be the laws because if you prove 416 00:16:02,550 --> 00:16:01,680 something it's a theorem 417 00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:02,560 so 418 00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:05,040 the second law cannot be proven it's 419 00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:06,720 simply 420 00:16:09,749 --> 00:16:08,560 believed because it's observed to be 421 00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:09,759 true 422 00:16:12,629 --> 00:16:11,360 but that also means that it's 423 00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:12,639 provisional 424 00:16:17,030 --> 00:16:16,079 it's true only absolutely true only 425 00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:17,040 because 426 00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:19,279 it is observed to be absolutely true and 427 00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:21,600 a single exception to that 428 00:16:26,870 --> 00:16:24,560 would not destroy its usefulness per se 429 00:16:29,509 --> 00:16:26,880 but simply destroy its inviolability and 430 00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:29,519 open up possibilities 431 00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:31,920 most laws that we have that you look at 432 00:16:35,910 --> 00:16:33,839 in the literature are in fact 433 00:16:37,990 --> 00:16:35,920 rules of thumb they are not absolute 434 00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:38,000 although they are quite useful 435 00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,639 the ideal gas law for instance well 436 00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:42,480 it sounds like it's ideal and it sounds 437 00:16:46,790 --> 00:16:44,720 like a law but in fact it assumes 438 00:16:48,389 --> 00:16:46,800 point-like particles 439 00:16:51,749 --> 00:16:48,399 that are non-interactive and that's not 440 00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:51,759 true of real gases so you might want to 441 00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:53,199 do something like the van der waals 442 00:16:57,430 --> 00:16:55,519 equation instead which updates it a bit 443 00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:57,440 but still is not exact 444 00:17:00,710 --> 00:16:58,639 so 445 00:17:02,829 --> 00:17:00,720 there are they're creating a perfectly 446 00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:02,839 true gas law is probably almost 447 00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:05,439 impossible universal's 448 00:17:10,390 --> 00:17:08,079 newton's universal law of gravitation 449 00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:10,400 well it's really good for everyday 450 00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:12,000 gravitational dynamics and good enough 451 00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:13,839 for nasa for the most part 452 00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:15,439 but we know that the general theory of 453 00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:18,240 relativity by einstein itself supersedes 454 00:17:22,390 --> 00:17:20,160 newton's universal law of gravitation 455 00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:22,400 and is a more exact description of 456 00:17:25,590 --> 00:17:23,760 nature 457 00:17:27,029 --> 00:17:25,600 moreover 458 00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:27,039 the general theory of relativity is 459 00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:29,520 thought to be an approximation itself 460 00:17:33,990 --> 00:17:31,280 there might be something more underlying 461 00:17:36,549 --> 00:17:34,000 it for instance quantum gravity 462 00:17:39,029 --> 00:17:36,559 hubble's law of which describes the 463 00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:39,039 distance velocity relationship for 464 00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:41,039 distant galaxies 465 00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:42,640 is not true for distances less than 466 00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:45,360 maybe 50 to 100 million light years and 467 00:17:49,590 --> 00:17:47,120 furthermore when you when you throw in 468 00:17:50,710 --> 00:17:49,600 something like uh dark energy it's not 469 00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:50,720 really true 470 00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:53,200 so hubble's law is gonna again just a 471 00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:54,400 rule of thumb 472 00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:56,080 the law of natural selection another 473 00:18:00,390 --> 00:17:57,520 example 474 00:18:01,830 --> 00:18:00,400 most so-called laws have limits of 475 00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:01,840 applicability 476 00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:04,320 and so it's quite reasonable to assume 477 00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:06,640 that the second law does as well after 478 00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:10,160 all it was discovered 170 years ago 479 00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:12,080 in the age of steam engines and since 480 00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:13,520 then we've had 481 00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:14,960 all sorts of new kinds of energy 482 00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:17,200 discovered we've had special relativity 483 00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:19,520 quantum mechanics chaos syrian and other 484 00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:21,600 revolutions as well so there's no reason 485 00:18:28,230 --> 00:18:24,320 to expect the second law to be absolute 486 00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:28,240 although it is terribly useful 487 00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:30,400 so with that i'd like to introduce 488 00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:33,280 the concept of epicatalysis which is an 489 00:18:37,270 --> 00:18:34,240 area 490 00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:37,280 which is a form of catalysis so to speak 491 00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:40,720 that challenges the second law 492 00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:42,240 so let's kind of review first of all 493 00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:44,320 what catalysts do 494 00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:46,000 catalysts are 495 00:18:49,350 --> 00:18:47,840 usually are are assumed to have three 496 00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:49,360 properties 497 00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:51,600 first is that they speed up chemical 498 00:18:54,870 --> 00:18:53,120 reactions 499 00:18:57,270 --> 00:18:54,880 next they're not consumed by the 500 00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:57,280 reaction that they speed up 501 00:19:01,750 --> 00:18:59,120 and third 502 00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:01,760 they don't change the final equilibrium 503 00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:05,200 of the reaction that they enter into 504 00:19:10,870 --> 00:19:07,280 so let's consider a simple reaction 505 00:19:14,230 --> 00:19:10,880 where we have a diatomic molecule a2 506 00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:14,240 in equilibrium with its monomers so the 507 00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:17,280 diatomic a2 disassociates into two 508 00:19:21,510 --> 00:19:20,320 monomers 2a and those can recombine back 509 00:19:24,549 --> 00:19:21,520 into a2 510 00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:24,559 and in a closed system with with walls 511 00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:26,559 and gas phase equilibrium you would you 512 00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:30,720 have a particular gas phase equilibrium 513 00:19:34,950 --> 00:19:32,480 but when you get into a situation where 514 00:19:37,029 --> 00:19:34,960 the mean free path of your gas is long 515 00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:37,039 compared to the size of the cavity and 516 00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:38,640 that you have chemical reactivity of 517 00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:40,640 that gas with the walls 518 00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:43,200 then the third principle of catalysis 519 00:19:46,390 --> 00:19:45,280 which says that the equilibrium is 520 00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:46,400 unique 521 00:19:50,950 --> 00:19:48,320 is not true anymore 522 00:19:53,669 --> 00:19:50,960 for instance if we consider two surfaces 523 00:19:56,549 --> 00:19:53,679 s2 and s1 these are two different 524 00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:56,559 surfaces let's say this is 525 00:20:01,029 --> 00:19:59,360 made out of rhenium and the s1 is made 526 00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:01,039 out of tungsten 527 00:20:06,310 --> 00:20:03,360 and let's say we have hydrogen 528 00:20:08,549 --> 00:20:06,320 molecules in atoms if two atoms come in 529 00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:08,559 they can recombine to form a the 530 00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:11,120 diatomic species and if the diatomic 531 00:20:15,510 --> 00:20:13,200 species comes in it can just sit around 532 00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:15,520 and then just leave as the diatomic 533 00:20:21,909 --> 00:20:18,000 species again so you have recombination 534 00:20:26,870 --> 00:20:24,070 s1 on the other hand can have a reaction 535 00:20:29,350 --> 00:20:26,880 with the surface such that the monomers 536 00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:29,360 come in and leave without much without 537 00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:32,159 much trouble but the diatomic molecule 538 00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:34,960 comes in and is split 539 00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:39,360 and disassociates into two a atoms 540 00:20:43,669 --> 00:20:41,280 this phenomena has been noted for well 541 00:20:45,110 --> 00:20:43,679 over 100 years with hydrogen hydrogen 542 00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:45,120 reacting with high temperature 543 00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:47,360 refractory metals like tungsten rhenium 544 00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:48,640 molybdenum 545 00:20:52,390 --> 00:20:50,559 tantalum and iridium 546 00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:52,400 are have been known to disassociate 547 00:20:55,750 --> 00:20:53,919 hydrogen at 548 00:20:57,669 --> 00:20:55,760 at different rates but no one ever 549 00:20:59,350 --> 00:20:57,679 really thought to think what that really 550 00:21:04,230 --> 00:20:59,360 means 551 00:21:06,870 --> 00:21:04,240 if one surface is preferentially 552 00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:06,880 recombining 553 00:21:11,909 --> 00:21:09,120 monomers into dimers 554 00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:11,919 the bond energy is liberated into the 555 00:21:16,710 --> 00:21:14,640 surface and it begins to heat 556 00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:16,720 conversely if you have a surface which 557 00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:19,679 preferentially disassociates molecules 558 00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:21,039 into atoms 559 00:21:26,070 --> 00:21:23,360 it has to provide the 560 00:21:28,470 --> 00:21:26,080 um the bond energy energy 561 00:21:32,149 --> 00:21:28,480 to break that bond and as a result it 562 00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:34,070 so under these circumstances you can 563 00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:36,240 imagine the following scenario 564 00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:39,360 two surfaces surface two and surface one 565 00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:41,280 inside a cavity such that the mean free 566 00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:43,039 path is long and the molecules interact 567 00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:44,960 with the surfaces and don't interact 568 00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:47,280 with each other in the gas phase such 569 00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:49,360 that they simply go from surface to 570 00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:51,360 surface for the most most part 571 00:21:55,909 --> 00:21:53,520 on surface one you have disassociation 572 00:21:59,190 --> 00:21:55,919 on surface two you have recombination as 573 00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:59,200 a result s2 heats s1 cools and now you 574 00:22:02,950 --> 00:22:01,120 have a temperature difference 575 00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:02,960 that temperature difference then can be 576 00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:05,039 used to drive a classical heat engine 577 00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:06,400 where heat from the high temperature 578 00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:08,480 reservoir goes through the resin goes 579 00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:09,919 through the heat engine 580 00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:14,240 creates work performs work and 581 00:22:18,390 --> 00:22:16,400 excess heat goes back to the cold 582 00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:18,400 reservoir and this can continue in 583 00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:19,520 principle 584 00:22:22,789 --> 00:22:21,600 indefinitely because this temperature 585 00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:22,799 differential 586 00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:25,440 is quote originally an equilibrium state 587 00:22:29,350 --> 00:22:27,120 of the system 588 00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:29,360 this is what's called an epicatalytic 589 00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:34,070 in real in real life you might be able 590 00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:36,080 to exploit this temperature differential 591 00:22:40,149 --> 00:22:38,080 by putting in a thermoelectric generator 592 00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:40,159 between the two surfaces and export 593 00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:45,909 now the idea of epicatalysis was 594 00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:47,520 controversial since it was first put 595 00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:50,000 forward because it was understood that 596 00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:52,240 it could lead to a second law of 597 00:22:55,510 --> 00:22:53,600 violation 598 00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:55,520 experiments have been conducted now 599 00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:57,280 which verify the existence of 600 00:23:03,110 --> 00:22:59,360 epicatalysis 601 00:23:05,590 --> 00:23:03,120 can be found in a number of papers in 602 00:23:07,909 --> 00:23:05,600 physical review and elsewhere 603 00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:07,919 and experiments were performed back in 604 00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:10,799 2013 and 2014 which 605 00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:13,360 uh verified or strongly i would say 606 00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:15,600 verify but this might say corroborate 607 00:23:19,350 --> 00:23:17,039 this phenomenon 608 00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:19,360 and the way it works is this 609 00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:23,360 the experiments are conducted in a 610 00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:24,559 high vacuum 611 00:23:28,149 --> 00:23:27,200 vacuum vessel and inside of it one one 612 00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:28,159 puts 613 00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:29,919 a black body 614 00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:34,159 closed container that has one 615 00:23:39,430 --> 00:23:37,200 temperature in it and the temperature of 616 00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:39,440 this black body cylinder can be changed 617 00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:41,760 by passing current through this through 618 00:23:46,149 --> 00:23:43,760 the metallic walls and that can heat it 619 00:23:47,830 --> 00:23:46,159 up ohmically like a heat like a filament 620 00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:47,840 and a light bulb 621 00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:50,400 inside of it and going now to the the 622 00:23:54,390 --> 00:23:52,400 far right diagram this is the inside of 623 00:23:55,990 --> 00:23:54,400 the cavity current passes through the 624 00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:56,000 walls the walls are made out of either 625 00:24:02,070 --> 00:23:58,799 tungsten or rhenium both work 626 00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:02,080 and inside you have two filaments these 627 00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:04,080 are actually thermocouples one coated 628 00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:07,679 with rhenium one coated with tungsten 629 00:24:13,269 --> 00:24:10,240 the experiments which describe this 630 00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:13,279 are in foundations of physics 631 00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:14,159 now 632 00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:16,480 when the walls the walls temperature can 633 00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:18,080 be varied from room temperature up to 634 00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:20,480 about two thousand kelvin 635 00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:23,440 and um when you heat up the walls 636 00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:27,520 at in a good vacuum or high vacuum 637 00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:29,279 you find that the two thermocouples 638 00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:31,360 register the same temperature as you 639 00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:32,880 would expect they're inside the same 640 00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:34,640 container and therefore they should come 641 00:24:39,029 --> 00:24:36,640 to the same temperature so in a vacuum 642 00:24:40,710 --> 00:24:39,039 they come to the same temperature 643 00:24:43,110 --> 00:24:40,720 now when you put in 644 00:24:46,230 --> 00:24:43,120 helium which is a 645 00:24:48,789 --> 00:24:46,240 an inert noble gas again they come 646 00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:48,799 exactly to the same temperatures which 647 00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:51,279 is what you'd expect 648 00:24:55,510 --> 00:24:54,000 but then if you put in hydrogen 649 00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:55,520 at the same pressures you'd put in the 650 00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:56,559 helium 651 00:25:02,870 --> 00:24:59,440 the temperatures of these diverge 652 00:25:05,110 --> 00:25:02,880 greatly up to over 125 degrees kelvin 653 00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:05,120 difference at pressures on the order of 654 00:25:07,669 --> 00:25:06,240 a few torr 655 00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:07,679 and the reason is 656 00:25:11,909 --> 00:25:09,600 rhenium breaks down 657 00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:11,919 uranium 658 00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:14,880 recombines hydrogen better than tungsten 659 00:25:19,029 --> 00:25:17,360 does and as a result it cools the 660 00:25:21,430 --> 00:25:19,039 tungsten heat 661 00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:21,440 and the power unit area difference in 662 00:25:26,390 --> 00:25:22,880 terms of 663 00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:26,400 the order of a tenth of a megawatt per 664 00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:28,640 square meter these devices of course are 665 00:25:32,789 --> 00:25:31,200 quite small and so the the power 666 00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:32,799 differences between the two are got not 667 00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:34,480 very much but in terms of 668 00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:37,360 surface area it is quite substantial 669 00:25:41,669 --> 00:25:39,120 this is repeatable the temperature 670 00:25:43,269 --> 00:25:41,679 difference remains until the hydrogen is 671 00:25:45,510 --> 00:25:43,279 taken out 672 00:25:47,669 --> 00:25:45,520 and this demonstrates that in a single 673 00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:47,679 black body cavity you can achieve two 674 00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:50,159 separate temperatures this would be like 675 00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:52,240 in your own room right now having a 676 00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:55,600 block of ice and a hot cup of coffee 677 00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:57,600 coffee's staying hot forever 678 00:26:02,310 --> 00:26:00,159 and the ice never melting that's second 679 00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:02,320 law simply does not allow for that but 680 00:26:09,909 --> 00:26:07,750 now because this experiment was 681 00:26:11,909 --> 00:26:09,919 conducted at very low pressures and at 682 00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:11,919 very high temperatures no one has 683 00:26:15,669 --> 00:26:13,360 repeated it 684 00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:15,679 and since it's since these original 685 00:26:19,669 --> 00:26:17,360 experiments our laboratory has been 686 00:26:21,909 --> 00:26:19,679 looking for evidence of not high 687 00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:21,919 temperature epicatalysis but room 688 00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:24,320 temperature epicatalysis and some early 689 00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:27,279 experiments back in 2015 suggested very 690 00:26:33,029 --> 00:26:29,840 strongly that that hydrogen bonded 691 00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:33,039 dimers like formic acid could create 692 00:26:38,149 --> 00:26:36,320 room temperature epicatalysis 693 00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:38,159 and so as kind of an update or i should 694 00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:40,000 say a postscript 695 00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:41,840 we have done those experiments now 696 00:26:45,669 --> 00:26:43,760 looking for temperature differentials 697 00:26:47,669 --> 00:26:45,679 and these experiments were were 698 00:26:50,870 --> 00:26:47,679 conducted by my colleague 699 00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:50,880 david miller he's done a wonderful job 700 00:26:55,029 --> 00:26:52,720 and in the last two weeks we have found 701 00:26:57,830 --> 00:26:55,039 very very strong evidence for room 702 00:26:59,430 --> 00:26:57,840 temperature epicatalysis with sizable 703 00:27:02,070 --> 00:26:59,440 temperature differentials between 704 00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:02,080 polymer surfaces interacting with formic 705 00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:06,789 the power densities potentially 706 00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:09,520 available in epicatalytic thermal diodes 707 00:27:13,990 --> 00:27:12,000 have been calculated analytically and 708 00:27:15,430 --> 00:27:14,000 through numerical simulation found to be 709 00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:15,440 substantial 710 00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:17,360 in principle the power densities could 711 00:27:21,669 --> 00:27:20,000 be as high as 100 megawatts per cubic 712 00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:21,679 meter but of course that cannot be 713 00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:23,360 attained because if you're going to get 714 00:27:28,389 --> 00:27:26,080 power from an etd that requires turning 715 00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:28,399 heat into work and you have to supply 716 00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:31,440 the etd with thermal energy and that's 717 00:27:36,070 --> 00:27:33,520 going to be limited by how fast you can 718 00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:36,080 you can send that energy in and so this 719 00:27:39,510 --> 00:27:37,520 kind of power density will not be 720 00:27:41,110 --> 00:27:39,520 attainable except for brief moments 721 00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:41,120 before the system freezes itself to 722 00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:42,480 death 723 00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:44,720 but its uses well the power the the 724 00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:46,640 power that you get out of the etd could 725 00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:49,360 be used for basically any form of work 726 00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:51,440 that you would normally want to use it 727 00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:54,080 for heating and cooling directly thermal 728 00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:57,279 electricity freezing or boiling water 729 00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:01,200 so the etd is a is a 730 00:28:08,710 --> 00:28:03,600 instantiation of a second law 731 00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:10,710 and it suggests 732 00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:13,760 by example conditions for second law 733 00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:14,960 exceptions 734 00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:15,760 and 735 00:28:21,029 --> 00:28:18,399 i would like to to pose 736 00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:21,039 or propose the following 737 00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:22,559 the the conditions for a second law 738 00:28:27,029 --> 00:28:24,640 exception would probably involve these 739 00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:27,039 five characteristics first of all some 740 00:28:31,669 --> 00:28:29,440 sort of finite or bounded system in 741 00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:31,679 other words one that does not adhere to 742 00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:33,679 the mindset at least of the 743 00:28:38,470 --> 00:28:35,600 thermodynamic limbic in other words 744 00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:38,480 taking boundaries seriously 745 00:28:42,789 --> 00:28:40,480 number two there should be a thermally 746 00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:42,799 regenerable energy reservoir that's 747 00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:45,120 something you could express as kt 748 00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:47,440 boltzmann's constant times temperature 749 00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:50,320 that's at one or more of the boundaries 750 00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:52,320 next you need to have a physical or 751 00:28:56,950 --> 00:28:54,240 thermodynamic asymmetry built into the 752 00:28:58,789 --> 00:28:56,960 system you need an independent so to 753 00:29:01,110 --> 00:28:58,799 speak orthogonal work extraction 754 00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:01,120 apparatus that's independent of the of 755 00:29:06,630 --> 00:29:04,240 the energy reservoir 756 00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:06,640 and fifth you need to have a some sort 757 00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:07,919 of 758 00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:12,399 metastable configuration for your system 759 00:29:18,149 --> 00:29:14,399 another another way in other words a way 760 00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:18,159 to reset the thermal reservoir of um of 761 00:29:20,630 --> 00:29:18,880 the 762 00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:20,640 device 763 00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:22,799 so let's look at these in terms of the 764 00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:26,080 etd the epicatalytic thermal diode it's 765 00:29:28,630 --> 00:29:27,840 certainly a finite inbounded system 766 00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:28,640 check 767 00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:30,320 the thermally regenerable energy 768 00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:32,640 reservoir at the boundary 769 00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:33,760 is 770 00:29:43,269 --> 00:29:40,480 monomer a and the dimer a2 these the 771 00:29:45,190 --> 00:29:43,279 bond energy and breaking um and 772 00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:45,200 recombining it is the source of your 773 00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:47,679 energy reservoir at the boundary 774 00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:49,760 the physical thermodynamic asymmetry 775 00:29:54,789 --> 00:29:52,240 that's built into this particular system 776 00:29:56,230 --> 00:29:54,799 are s1 and s2 these two surfaces have 777 00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:56,240 different chemical activities with 778 00:30:00,870 --> 00:29:59,360 respect to a and a2 779 00:30:01,990 --> 00:30:00,880 the independent work extraction 780 00:30:03,909 --> 00:30:02,000 apparatus well it could be the 781 00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:03,919 thermoelectric system that we talked 782 00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:05,279 about earlier 783 00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:08,000 switchable and resettable 784 00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:09,840 aspect of it comes about because of the 785 00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:12,640 gas cycling between the two surfaces and 786 00:30:17,269 --> 00:30:14,880 the walls 787 00:30:19,669 --> 00:30:17,279 so all of these these five 788 00:30:21,029 --> 00:30:19,679 characteristics are met by the etd and 789 00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:21,039 it turns out 790 00:30:26,470 --> 00:30:24,720 they are met by all the dozen or so uh 791 00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:26,480 second law challenges that have been 792 00:30:32,149 --> 00:30:29,679 promoted at the university of san diego 793 00:30:34,230 --> 00:30:32,159 and furthermore i would argue that they 794 00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:34,240 are these five characteristics can be 795 00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:36,480 seen in each of the generation three 796 00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:38,640 second law exceptions that are being 797 00:30:42,870 --> 00:30:41,600 that can um that are being described by 798 00:30:43,669 --> 00:30:42,880 um 799 00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:43,679 the 800 00:30:53,510 --> 00:30:48,640 ask or maybe challenge you to try to 801 00:30:58,389 --> 00:30:55,350 so what does this mean 802 00:31:00,549 --> 00:30:58,399 what what a second law device does if 803 00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:00,559 it's if it violates the second law in a 804 00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:03,039 in a way that that 805 00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:05,360 extracts work so to speak from from the 806 00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:06,880 heat bath 807 00:31:09,990 --> 00:31:09,120 you can call it a heat recycler 808 00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:10,000 so 809 00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:14,720 car or tv a heater a computer lights 810 00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:16,000 whatever you wish 811 00:31:20,230 --> 00:31:18,000 it generates a lot of waste heat all the 812 00:31:22,870 --> 00:31:20,240 energy you've paid for in your life 99 813 00:31:25,029 --> 00:31:22,880 of it is turned into heat probably more 814 00:31:27,190 --> 00:31:25,039 and after that you can't use it again 815 00:31:29,269 --> 00:31:27,200 but a heat recycler takes that heat and 816 00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:29,279 turns it back into work 817 00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:31,679 so if you form this cycle between the 818 00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:33,840 system and the heat recycler you've 819 00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:36,080 basically turned heat not into a 820 00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:38,640 sustainable form of energy and not into 821 00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:41,200 a just a green form of energy or a 822 00:31:45,350 --> 00:31:43,440 renewable form of energy you have turned 823 00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:45,360 it into a recyclable 824 00:31:49,269 --> 00:31:47,679 form of energy it's a completely 825 00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:49,279 different mindset when it comes to 826 00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:51,440 energy your system creates heat your 827 00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:54,080 heat recycler creates work and they work 828 00:31:57,110 --> 00:31:55,919 together such that you have a closed 829 00:31:58,870 --> 00:31:57,120 system 830 00:32:01,909 --> 00:31:58,880 so you don't need to 831 00:32:05,029 --> 00:32:01,919 get energy energy from elsewhere because 832 00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:07,269 so to give you an idea of how much 833 00:32:12,549 --> 00:32:10,080 thermal energy or heat is around us on 834 00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:12,559 an everyday basis consider a cubic meter 835 00:32:17,269 --> 00:32:14,880 of air and your room you're in may have 836 00:32:19,269 --> 00:32:17,279 several hundred cubic meters 837 00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:19,279 each cubic meter of air in terms of just 838 00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:22,080 the kinetic energy of the molecules 839 00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:24,399 oxygen and nitrogen corresponds to 840 00:32:31,029 --> 00:32:26,080 roughly the chemical energy of 841 00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:31,039 detonating 60 grams of tnt 842 00:32:35,830 --> 00:32:33,200 a cubic meter of water if you were to 843 00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:35,840 take it from 20 degrees c down to 0 844 00:32:40,230 --> 00:32:38,399 degrees c and form ice 845 00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:40,240 the amount of energy that that you could 846 00:32:43,430 --> 00:32:42,159 extract from that cubic meter of water 847 00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:43,440 would be equivalent to about 100 848 00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:47,039 kilograms of tnt over 200 pounds of tnt 849 00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:48,559 so literally we are living in an 850 00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:50,720 environment just with thermal energy 851 00:32:56,070 --> 00:32:53,840 alone we're just swimming in energy and 852 00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:56,080 because of the second law up till now we 853 00:33:00,870 --> 00:32:58,159 can't get at it 854 00:33:02,549 --> 00:33:00,880 but if we could with heat recyclers if 855 00:33:04,870 --> 00:33:02,559 you were to take the atmosphere ocean 856 00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:04,880 and upper crust and consider simply the 857 00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:06,960 amount of thermal energy available there 858 00:33:11,590 --> 00:33:09,600 it would be roughly 10 000 times 859 00:33:13,269 --> 00:33:11,600 the fossil fuel 860 00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:13,279 the chemical energy of all the fossil 861 00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:15,120 fuel reserves in the world 862 00:33:20,470 --> 00:33:19,120 and if in fact heat is truly recyclable 863 00:33:22,630 --> 00:33:20,480 then because you can constantly 864 00:33:24,549 --> 00:33:22,640 recyclable recycle it and use it again 865 00:33:26,149 --> 00:33:24,559 and again the energy supplies are 866 00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:26,159 virtually infinite 867 00:33:33,029 --> 00:33:31,509 so what are the ramifications of of such 868 00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:33,039 devices well 869 00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:34,720 certainly energy would would change its 870 00:33:40,549 --> 00:33:38,000 character from being one from work being 871 00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:40,559 simply being lost in the form of heat to 872 00:33:45,750 --> 00:33:43,760 making energy recyclable um heat itself 873 00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:45,760 is ubiquitous it's free it's clean it's 874 00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:48,640 green and effectively inexhaustible 875 00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:51,120 energy itself though represents 10 of 876 00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:52,960 the world's economy 877 00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:55,200 and if you were to and if you were to 878 00:34:01,509 --> 00:33:58,320 suddenly so to speak change that uh 879 00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:01,519 energy equation that energy uh ecology 880 00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:03,360 that we have in our economy lots of 881 00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:04,880 things would change you would have 882 00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:07,200 economic disruptions you would have 883 00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:10,480 industrial changes in a massive scale 884 00:34:13,750 --> 00:34:12,159 you would probably have geopolitical 885 00:34:15,510 --> 00:34:13,760 upheaval as well 886 00:34:16,869 --> 00:34:15,520 but you'd also have lots of ecological 887 00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:16,879 benefits 888 00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:19,520 this form of energy does not produce 889 00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:21,839 co2 or other greenhouse gases except in 890 00:34:25,909 --> 00:34:24,399 the production of the devices themselves 891 00:34:27,589 --> 00:34:25,919 you don't have to tear up the land to 892 00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:27,599 get to the coal or drill holes in the 893 00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:29,520 ground you won't have oil spills there 894 00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:31,440 will be all sorts of ecological benefits 895 00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:32,639 for it 896 00:34:37,349 --> 00:34:34,800 literally energy makes the world go 897 00:34:39,909 --> 00:34:37,359 round in every sense of the word 898 00:34:42,790 --> 00:34:39,919 in the sense physically chemically 899 00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:42,800 thermodynamically ecologically 900 00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:44,639 um economically 901 00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:47,280 geopolitically militarily energy is the 902 00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:49,440 currency of change and if you change the 903 00:34:54,869 --> 00:34:51,599 fundamental relationship of ourselves to 904 00:34:56,550 --> 00:34:54,879 energy you change all of those things 905 00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:56,560 i think it would be actually quite 906 00:35:00,390 --> 00:34:57,680 useful 907 00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:00,400 now before things truly get underway 908 00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:02,560 to consider what the world would be like 909 00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:04,800 if energy were truly democratized if 910 00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:07,119 energy no longer cost anything aside 911 00:35:10,870 --> 00:35:09,040 from the devices that were to extract it 912 00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:10,880 directly from the environment how would 913 00:35:15,349 --> 00:35:13,920 that change the um things like the use 914 00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:15,359 of the power grid 915 00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:17,760 the the um 916 00:35:22,150 --> 00:35:19,839 the ecology and economy of the world all 917 00:35:23,589 --> 00:35:22,160 of these things would would change but i 918 00:35:25,670 --> 00:35:23,599 to my knowledge this has never really 919 00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:25,680 been considered in a serious manner i 920 00:35:28,870 --> 00:35:27,280 think a good time to do that would be 921 00:35:31,109 --> 00:35:28,880 now 922 00:35:33,430 --> 00:35:31,119 because as generation three goes to 923 00:35:35,589 --> 00:35:33,440 generation four devices from the 924 00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:35,599 experiment from the lab 925 00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:38,480 to the commercial realm um things will 926 00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:40,880 change and this will typically if one 927 00:35:45,430 --> 00:35:43,200 looks at history take 30 to 40 years 928 00:35:47,349 --> 00:35:45,440 once once commercial devices are created 929 00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:47,359 that's how long new technologies 930 00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:48,720 typically take 931 00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:50,960 but it could be on an accelerated 932 00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:52,880 time scale if 933 00:35:57,270 --> 00:35:54,480 if given the emergency in the 934 00:36:01,670 --> 00:35:58,950 so in summary 935 00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:01,680 um the second law if one looks hard at 936 00:36:04,630 --> 00:36:03,599 it straight ahead there are experiments 937 00:36:07,109 --> 00:36:04,640 now which 938 00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:07,119 uh violate certain certain versions of 939 00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:09,680 the second law you know and can be taken 940 00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:12,000 therefore as violating the second law 941 00:36:15,990 --> 00:36:13,680 and that all of them 942 00:36:19,030 --> 00:36:16,000 involve some sort of boundary free 943 00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:19,040 energy source this seems to be a key um 944 00:36:22,390 --> 00:36:20,480 aspect of it 945 00:36:24,150 --> 00:36:22,400 there are half a dozen such second law 946 00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:24,160 experiments currently in progress around 947 00:36:26,630 --> 00:36:25,359 the world 948 00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:26,640 and 949 00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:28,800 i believe generation 4 devices are on 950 00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:31,280 the horizon 951 00:36:34,150 --> 00:36:32,800 i'd like to end this talk with a couple 952 00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:34,160 of things the first is what is 953 00:36:38,790 --> 00:36:36,079 considered probably to be the most 954 00:36:41,349 --> 00:36:38,800 famous of all second law endorsements by 955 00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:41,359 arthur eddington who was a scientist 956 00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:43,119 who was really as famous as einstein in 957 00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:44,720 the early 20th century 958 00:36:49,829 --> 00:36:46,800 and over 90 years ago 959 00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:49,839 he um he said what is often used as the 960 00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:51,839 um as the main justification for 961 00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:54,800 considering the second law absolute 962 00:36:59,109 --> 00:36:57,040 the law that entropy always increases 963 00:37:01,349 --> 00:36:59,119 the second law of thermodynamics holds i 964 00:37:02,790 --> 00:37:01,359 think the supreme position among laws of 965 00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:02,800 nature 966 00:37:05,589 --> 00:37:04,320 if someone points out to you that your 967 00:37:07,750 --> 00:37:05,599 pet theory of the universe is in 968 00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:07,760 disagreement with maxwell's equation 969 00:37:10,310 --> 00:37:09,280 then so much the worse for maxwell's 970 00:37:11,589 --> 00:37:10,320 equation 971 00:37:14,069 --> 00:37:11,599 if it is found to be 972 00:37:16,710 --> 00:37:14,079 contradicted by observation well these 973 00:37:17,990 --> 00:37:16,720 experimentalists fungal things sometimes 974 00:37:20,069 --> 00:37:18,000 but if your theory is found to be 975 00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:20,079 against the second law of thermodynamics 976 00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:22,560 i can give you no hope there is nothing 977 00:37:27,349 --> 00:37:24,960 for it but to collapse in deepest 978 00:37:29,030 --> 00:37:27,359 humiliation 979 00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:29,040 i think the time has passed 980 00:37:32,470 --> 00:37:30,000 for 981 00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:32,480 such fundamentalist statements of faith 982 00:37:35,750 --> 00:37:34,079 concerning the second law 983 00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:35,760 and i think it's time to consider new 984 00:37:40,069 --> 00:37:37,680 formulations of the second law for 985 00:37:42,069 --> 00:37:40,079 instance one something like this 986 00:37:45,829 --> 00:37:42,079 for any spontaneous process the entropy 987 00:37:55,349 --> 00:37:48,310 except when it does 988 00:38:02,310 --> 00:37:56,390 thank you 989 00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:02,320 uh to the field to 990 00:38:07,430 --> 00:38:06,240 this symposium and uh to your 991 00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:07,440 results 992 00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:10,800 uh one of the fascinating 993 00:38:14,550 --> 00:38:13,200 things for me has been how daniel has 994 00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:14,560 been publishing 995 00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:15,839 evidence 996 00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:17,599 for violations 997 00:38:19,589 --> 00:38:18,400 for 998 00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:19,599 years 999 00:38:24,710 --> 00:38:22,960 and that evidence has been met in the 1000 00:38:27,030 --> 00:38:24,720 scientific literature 1001 00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:27,040 with silence 1002 00:38:30,630 --> 00:38:28,560 and uh 1003 00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:30,640 maybe today is a 1004 00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:32,160 will be will mark a little bit of a 1005 00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:33,839 change there 1006 00:38:43,109 --> 00:38:41,589 yes uh thank you um 1007 00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:43,119 uh professor sheehan i think this is 1008 00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:45,040 probably one of the most important uh 1009 00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:47,680 presentations in this symposium or uh 1010 00:38:53,190 --> 00:38:51,040 many others um i really appreciate that 1011 00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:53,200 uh i have only uh two questions try to 1012 00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:54,320 keep it 1013 00:38:59,190 --> 00:38:56,720 short amongst many others uh one is sort 1014 00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:59,200 of a metaphysical and the other is uh 1015 00:39:03,030 --> 00:39:01,200 more practical the metaphysical question 1016 00:39:06,150 --> 00:39:03,040 is uh you had mentioned that 1017 00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:06,160 um time goes forward because of the 1018 00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:08,320 second law um 1019 00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:10,960 this may be a take a long answer but 1020 00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:14,560 have you written anything on that uh 1021 00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:18,240 issue uh apart from um uh pure physical 1022 00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:21,040 uh article or physics articles 1023 00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:24,240 and my second question is um given that 1024 00:39:30,150 --> 00:39:26,480 uh um 1025 00:39:33,589 --> 00:39:30,160 the surrounding heat bath can supply 1026 00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:33,599 uh the necessary energy you might say um 1027 00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:36,880 given uh the epic catalysis uh 1028 00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:39,599 the thermal diode idea uh have you 1029 00:39:44,790 --> 00:39:42,160 determined whether there's a minimum 1030 00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:44,800 usable temperature for an ambient heat 1031 00:39:46,790 --> 00:39:45,680 bath 1032 00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:46,800 that would 1033 00:39:50,069 --> 00:39:49,040 enable us to power 1034 00:40:01,750 --> 00:39:50,079 uh 1035 00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:01,760 or 1036 00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:06,640 sure thank you okay um you asked the 1037 00:40:10,390 --> 00:40:07,920 questions which would take a day to 1038 00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:10,400 answer but i'll give you a brief one in 1039 00:40:13,430 --> 00:40:12,160 terms of the arrow of time there are 1040 00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:13,440 multiple arrows of time that have been 1041 00:40:17,670 --> 00:40:15,520 proposed for everyday life the second 1042 00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:17,680 law is considered to be um what's called 1043 00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:19,680 the thermodynamic arrow pushing things 1044 00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:20,800 forward i've written a little bit about 1045 00:40:23,990 --> 00:40:22,160 it i'd be happy to send something along 1046 00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:24,000 if you're interested i think your second 1047 00:40:28,470 --> 00:40:25,760 question um i think is maybe more 1048 00:40:29,910 --> 00:40:28,480 pertinent right now which is 1049 00:40:32,230 --> 00:40:29,920 what kind of how big of a device would 1050 00:40:33,190 --> 00:40:32,240 be needed to actually uh you know power 1051 00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:33,200 a house 1052 00:40:35,349 --> 00:40:34,079 well 1053 00:40:37,030 --> 00:40:35,359 if you have room temperature 1054 00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:37,040 epicatalysis 1055 00:40:40,870 --> 00:40:38,800 the power densities are still real 1056 00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:40,880 really quite large so if you were to 1057 00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:42,240 have something roughly the size of a 1058 00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:43,760 large coffee can 1059 00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:47,280 and um and you pull some air through it 1060 00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:49,200 at a few meters a second 1061 00:40:53,589 --> 00:40:50,880 and as the air goes through it cools 1062 00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:53,599 maybe 10 degrees c so comes in at 20 it 1063 00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:54,960 leaves at 10 1064 00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:56,800 then that would be able to prove produce 1065 00:41:01,589 --> 00:40:59,760 based on on the numbers we have of a 1066 00:41:03,430 --> 00:41:01,599 couple kilowatts easily 1067 00:41:05,349 --> 00:41:03,440 enough to power a house so you could 1068 00:41:07,990 --> 00:41:05,359 basically power a house with maybe a 1069 00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:08,000 panel the size of a large picture on one 1070 00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:09,200 side of your room which would draw heat 1071 00:41:12,309 --> 00:41:11,040 from your environment and power 1072 00:41:14,470 --> 00:41:12,319 everything in your house but of course 1073 00:41:16,230 --> 00:41:14,480 your house is going to be creating uh 1074 00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:16,240 expelling heat from your computer 1075 00:41:20,470 --> 00:41:17,680 refrigerator and everything else which 1076 00:41:24,550 --> 00:41:20,480 just keeps cycle going so you can have a 1077 00:41:27,109 --> 00:41:24,560 closed system with uh with fairly small 1078 00:41:31,510 --> 00:41:27,119 epic catalytic devices 1079 00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:32,390 okay 1080 00:41:41,589 --> 00:41:39,109 my areas in artificial intelligence and 1081 00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:41,599 computer science uh computation 1082 00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:43,680 reasoning about reasoning uh how you 1083 00:41:47,349 --> 00:41:45,599 develop reasoning systems i like really 1084 00:41:49,349 --> 00:41:47,359 love the way that you started your 1085 00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:49,359 presentation when you're talking about 1086 00:41:53,829 --> 00:41:52,000 every law is an axiom and 1087 00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:53,839 from a computational perspective every 1088 00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:55,920 model of science every type of reasoning 1089 00:42:00,790 --> 00:41:58,480 is is nothing more than a true a tool to 1090 00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:00,800 say that some some law is true or 1091 00:42:05,349 --> 00:42:03,520 something or other is is as good as 1092 00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:05,359 saying a wrench is true 1093 00:42:08,550 --> 00:42:06,400 there's lots of different types of 1094 00:42:11,829 --> 00:42:08,560 wrenches used for different purposes 1095 00:42:13,910 --> 00:42:11,839 um so that was great uh there's another 1096 00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:13,920 and i have a presentations online middle 1097 00:42:19,349 --> 00:42:17,680 level science uh youtube um but uh you 1098 00:42:20,390 --> 00:42:19,359 know the next step is you start getting 1099 00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:20,400 a list 1100 00:42:25,270 --> 00:42:22,800 of different types of okay well here's 1101 00:42:27,589 --> 00:42:25,280 an example of entropy in this very sub 1102 00:42:29,430 --> 00:42:27,599 you know one subspace but you can also 1103 00:42:30,790 --> 00:42:29,440 look at structure being created all over 1104 00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:30,800 the place there's lots of different 1105 00:42:33,190 --> 00:42:32,240 places where you see structure being 1106 00:42:34,309 --> 00:42:33,200 created 1107 00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:34,319 um 1108 00:42:37,589 --> 00:42:36,160 whether it's life artificial life 1109 00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:37,599 cosmological 1110 00:42:41,589 --> 00:42:38,800 the structure is being tried you can 1111 00:42:43,030 --> 00:42:41,599 create just a as long list for structure 1112 00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:43,040 being created 1113 00:42:47,829 --> 00:42:46,560 um and you'd be nice to see that type of 1114 00:42:51,750 --> 00:42:47,839 list also 1115 00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:51,760 uh third perpetual um all energy that we 1116 00:42:55,829 --> 00:42:54,000 use in the real world is perpetual 1117 00:42:57,910 --> 00:42:55,839 whether we're taking from the sun we're 1118 00:42:58,790 --> 00:42:57,920 thinking for geothermal 1119 00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:58,800 water 1120 00:43:03,109 --> 00:43:00,720 uh whether you're even actually burning 1121 00:43:05,270 --> 00:43:03,119 fuels that those chemical reactions from 1122 00:43:07,750 --> 00:43:05,280 an energetic formula perspective 1123 00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:07,760 equation perspective each one of them is 1124 00:43:11,670 --> 00:43:09,359 perpetual because you're always getting 1125 00:43:13,510 --> 00:43:11,680 this chain one after the other it's just 1126 00:43:16,470 --> 00:43:13,520 supplying the fuel which is not part of 1127 00:43:18,790 --> 00:43:16,480 the energy equation same with nuclear so 1128 00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:18,800 to say that you know there's no such 1129 00:43:22,790 --> 00:43:20,800 thing as perpetual energy ev all the 1130 00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:22,800 energy we use is perpetual we're taking 1131 00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:24,960 it from the environment 1132 00:43:29,109 --> 00:43:27,040 um fourth and i'm not just going over 1133 00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:29,119 points and i'm trying to to get to 1134 00:43:32,550 --> 00:43:31,760 something to a question 1135 00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:32,560 um 1136 00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:34,960 in some sense you could say that the 1137 00:43:38,790 --> 00:43:36,640 second law since there's been so many 1138 00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:38,800 different iterations of it it can't 1139 00:43:42,790 --> 00:43:40,720 really be a law because these are just 1140 00:43:45,190 --> 00:43:42,800 all just general concepts 1141 00:43:46,150 --> 00:43:45,200 but it's as you mentioned it's a closed 1142 00:43:48,150 --> 00:43:46,160 system 1143 00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:48,160 but what the second law is basically 1144 00:43:54,150 --> 00:43:51,599 saying that at the crux of it is it's 1145 00:43:56,309 --> 00:43:54,160 you can't have one energy system that 1146 00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:56,319 doesn't have some siphoning off into 1147 00:43:59,030 --> 00:43:57,359 another 1148 00:44:00,630 --> 00:43:59,040 so in some sense the second law is 1149 00:44:02,230 --> 00:44:00,640 basically itself 1150 00:44:03,589 --> 00:44:02,240 saying that 1151 00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:03,599 um 1152 00:44:05,670 --> 00:44:04,800 energy 1153 00:44:07,589 --> 00:44:05,680 is 1154 00:44:09,430 --> 00:44:07,599 um 1155 00:44:11,829 --> 00:44:09,440 there's no such thing as a closed energy 1156 00:44:14,150 --> 00:44:11,839 system but the second law itself says 1157 00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:14,160 you were in a closed system because it's 1158 00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:16,800 transforming to another system okay it's 1159 00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:18,720 transferring one thing to another so 1160 00:44:23,349 --> 00:44:21,359 there's a logical inconsistency but 1161 00:44:24,309 --> 00:44:23,359 every computational as a computational 1162 00:44:25,670 --> 00:44:24,319 science 1163 00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:25,680 that's what you have you always have 1164 00:44:28,790 --> 00:44:27,359 singularities paradoxes et cetera and 1165 00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:28,800 computational systems there's you can't 1166 00:44:33,030 --> 00:44:31,119 get away from it the more complex system 1167 00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:33,040 the more involved it is you have those 1168 00:44:36,950 --> 00:44:35,040 things that happen so 1169 00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:36,960 in some sense you you the second law 1170 00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:39,200 says well in a closed system but then 1171 00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:40,720 you really don't can never have a closed 1172 00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:42,160 system because energy transfers into 1173 00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:43,119 another 1174 00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:44,880 so you know i'm sitting here looking at 1175 00:44:49,510 --> 00:44:47,280 computation i started asking why is 1176 00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:49,520 everybody talking about this stuff you 1177 00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:51,040 know well you can't have perpetual but 1178 00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:53,119 it's all perpetual and you know you have 1179 00:44:57,829 --> 00:44:55,040 this law but it's just a tool why why 1180 00:44:59,510 --> 00:44:57,839 are we so focused on these archaic 1181 00:45:02,470 --> 00:44:59,520 concepts that came from a hundred years 1182 00:45:03,750 --> 00:45:02,480 ago okay and and don't relate to 1183 00:45:05,430 --> 00:45:03,760 that computation that's happening in the 1184 00:45:07,030 --> 00:45:05,440 world now yeah 1185 00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:07,040 so justin you've you've touched on all 1186 00:45:10,470 --> 00:45:09,040 the major ideas and non-equilibrium 1187 00:45:11,349 --> 00:45:10,480 thermodynamics and that would take a 1188 00:45:13,109 --> 00:45:11,359 book to 1189 00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:13,119 actually discuss so i'm going to try to 1190 00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:15,040 kind of cut through and just talk kind 1191 00:45:18,230 --> 00:45:16,319 of respond to a couple of your points 1192 00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:18,240 but it'll be okay i can't respond to 1193 00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:19,119 everything 1194 00:45:21,750 --> 00:45:19,920 um 1195 00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:21,760 in in terms of the idea that that all 1196 00:45:25,990 --> 00:45:23,760 energy is perpetual well energy is 1197 00:45:28,710 --> 00:45:26,000 conserved mass energy is conserved in 1198 00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:28,720 reactions at least at our level and um 1199 00:45:32,550 --> 00:45:30,720 so when you say it's perpetual 1200 00:45:35,030 --> 00:45:32,560 fine i mean you can have work being 1201 00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:35,040 degraded down into heat and and now the 1202 00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:36,480 the macroscopic energy becomes 1203 00:45:39,349 --> 00:45:37,760 microscopic 1204 00:45:40,230 --> 00:45:39,359 energy and you say well that's perpetual 1205 00:45:42,390 --> 00:45:40,240 well 1206 00:45:45,349 --> 00:45:42,400 um i i guess the way thermodynamics 1207 00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:45,359 handles it is is that it has to do with 1208 00:45:49,430 --> 00:45:47,680 the quality of the energy 1209 00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:49,440 and once it gets down to the to the 1210 00:45:55,510 --> 00:45:52,319 molecular level it's it can't can't be 1211 00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:55,520 used easily again to for for work so i i 1212 00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:56,720 guess i would take exception with the 1213 00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:58,480 idea that it's perpetual 1214 00:46:01,270 --> 00:45:59,760 although i think you're really pointing 1215 00:46:02,950 --> 00:46:01,280 to the idea of conservation of energy 1216 00:46:06,069 --> 00:46:02,960 which is the first law 1217 00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:06,079 um as for creating structure um yes the 1218 00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:07,920 world creates structure but it creates 1219 00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:10,000 it because of the non-equilibrium nature 1220 00:46:14,309 --> 00:46:12,720 of the world if you drive a system uh 1221 00:46:16,150 --> 00:46:14,319 you can get structure out of it so if 1222 00:46:17,829 --> 00:46:16,160 you drive the earth with an entropy 1223 00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:17,839 gradient from the sun to the earth you 1224 00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:19,440 create the biosphere 1225 00:46:24,950 --> 00:46:22,240 but um so it this does not violate the 1226 00:46:27,430 --> 00:46:24,960 second law to create structure um 1227 00:46:29,190 --> 00:46:27,440 because in the process of the process of 1228 00:46:32,550 --> 00:46:29,200 creating structure you end up creating 1229 00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:32,560 more entropy so the second law is a tax 1230 00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:35,839 it on on any kind of natural phenomenon 1231 00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:37,599 it doesn't destroy or create energy it 1232 00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:39,760 simply says that the quality of that 1233 00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:41,599 energy has to be changed in the process 1234 00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:43,040 that you lose a little bit of its 1235 00:46:47,030 --> 00:46:45,040 usefulness along the way 1236 00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:47,040 so i agree with with the spirit of some 1237 00:46:50,309 --> 00:46:48,560 of the things you say although i think 1238 00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:50,319 from the thermodynamic perspective i 1239 00:46:55,109 --> 00:46:52,400 have to disagree 1240 00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:55,119 can i just one follow up to clarify what 1241 00:46:59,990 --> 00:46:58,079 my point was yes um so when i say 1242 00:47:02,390 --> 00:47:00,000 perpetual it means that all of it energy 1243 00:47:04,710 --> 00:47:02,400 is coming from the environment yes that 1244 00:47:07,510 --> 00:47:04,720 whether it's solar what have you whether 1245 00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:07,520 it's stored in in a chemical or or 1246 00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:08,640 in the environment whatever you're 1247 00:47:13,270 --> 00:47:10,640 taking it out you're always taking some 1248 00:47:15,190 --> 00:47:13,280 energy from the environment so all of 1249 00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:15,200 the energy we have is perpetually being 1250 00:47:19,829 --> 00:47:16,880 taken from the environment yeah i agree 1251 00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:19,839 with you and then second 1252 00:47:24,309 --> 00:47:22,319 when you have that loss of energy it's 1253 00:47:26,549 --> 00:47:24,319 going back into the environment somehow 1254 00:47:28,470 --> 00:47:26,559 you know we have conservation it's it 1255 00:47:30,309 --> 00:47:28,480 it's going to be there so it's coming 1256 00:47:32,069 --> 00:47:30,319 from and the second will say well it's 1257 00:47:34,069 --> 00:47:32,079 going to you know it can't all be used 1258 00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:34,079 in one way some of it's going to go off 1259 00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:36,000 into the environment 1260 00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:36,960 again 1261 00:47:40,150 --> 00:47:39,200 perpetual everything's 1262 00:47:42,069 --> 00:47:40,160 right 1263 00:47:43,270 --> 00:47:42,079 but the perpetual nature i think you're 1264 00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:43,280 referring to has to do with is 1265 00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:45,760 conservation rather than its ability to 1266 00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:48,160 actually carry out more useful work so i 1267 00:47:50,710 --> 00:47:49,599 think that's the difference that's our 1268 00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:50,720 difference in what we're the way we're 1269 00:47:54,870 --> 00:47:53,280 discussing it um we're already at the 1270 00:47:57,670 --> 00:47:54,880 top of the hour 1271 00:48:00,309 --> 00:47:57,680 um robert solomon has a question if you 1272 00:48:02,549 --> 00:48:00,319 can make that question 30 seconds or 1273 00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:02,559 less and then also have a very quick 1274 00:48:04,950 --> 00:48:03,839 answer sure 1275 00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:04,960 please 1276 00:48:07,829 --> 00:48:06,480 okay of course i'll be speaking so fast 1277 00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:07,839 you barely be able understand so you'll 1278 00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:09,839 have to play it back at slow speed okay 1279 00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:11,680 basically matter 1280 00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:14,240 persists forever matter is not 1281 00:48:17,990 --> 00:48:16,000 supposedly created or destroyed except 1282 00:48:20,549 --> 00:48:18,000 for equals mc squared but let's get back 1283 00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:20,559 to the most basic thing stop calling it 1284 00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:23,119 energy we're talking about photons and 1285 00:48:27,190 --> 00:48:24,720 we're talking about photons we're 1286 00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:27,200 talking about accelerated charge 1287 00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:30,160 and that is what's we're talking about 1288 00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:32,000 and if we can get back to what it really 1289 00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:33,839 is instead of using these words like 1290 00:48:38,230 --> 00:48:36,079 energy and so on and we envision a 1291 00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:38,240 universe filled with photons or 1292 00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:41,119 connections between various charges due 1293 00:48:45,190 --> 00:48:43,119 to their acceleration mediated by what 1294 00:48:49,109 --> 00:48:45,200 we call a photon i think we'd be able to 1295 00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:52,069 that might be an enlightened approach